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Dec. 12th, 2011

Resonance! Do you use it much? Do you have any special powers you applied for (or didn't apply for but use anyway) and use anyway? Does sensing other persona-users tend to be the default for you? Tell uuus.

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ianthefira
Dec. 12th, 2011 07:09 pm (UTC)
I make use of resonance fairly frequently, though mostly for first meetings/detecting people who are close to a character at some distance. For me, the default is getting other people, though if there's no info/comments about it being hard to get, I'll ask first. I have probably forgotten on occasion, though, to err is human.

Miwa: Full-fledged spotter now. Used to/still can amp other people's detection (sorry, spotters only!!). I once did a thing where she was able to tell that it was night through her Persona but I ended up leaving that by the wayside. Unable to hide her resonance though I never pose it.

Katsuya: Just can get people's resonance. Sometimes. I've had it fail before either because 'I forgot' or 'it's more interesting'. Gets messy in large rooms where he can only distinguish people he is very close to and even then it's hard.

Minako has no special powers.
ianthefira
Dec. 12th, 2011 08:01 pm (UTC)
and okay the other icon now
Additional notes:

Miwa: though she's gotten better with her 'upgrade', she'd still have to focus to really track where someone /is/. All she can get by default is presence (and even that's not perfect; I'm thinking about maybe only if she's met them once before and there aren't special clauses)

Katsuya: ha ha sensing anything in the middle of a chaotic moment
theeternalmind
Dec. 12th, 2011 07:25 pm (UTC)
Not really. When I had Nagisa, she used to be semi-decent at sensory Resonance since I started back when the rules for Resonance were all FUBAR, and she stayed at least at 'being able to tell someone is a Persona-User or at least being able to get a good hunch that they are' without ever crossing into 'could tell what their powers were,' but she's a non-issue now. Rem is unawakened so she's also a non-issue. Adachi used to be pretty good at it, see previous reason for why, but then I scaled him over to just 'hiding his Resonance,' so he's pretty much all that now, so he is... yet another non-issue. Ditto for Mamoru and Akatsuki, for different reasons; for the record, though, Mamoru could never sense it, and Akatsuki could do some but was mostly only good at sensing Kyo.

Edited at 2011-12-12 07:38 pm (UTC)
kuribo_power
Dec. 12th, 2011 07:45 pm (UTC)
I made Mai's detection skill an active radar - it only works if she psychs herself for it, she needs to be looking. I'll admit I did not do this at first and frankly having it always on seemed less fun. And when under severe adrenaline (i.e. combat) it becomes muddled so she can't track someone with it either, she needs to be both focused and calm for it to work right.

As for side powers I never applied for, I made her heal relatively quickly from mundane injuries based on her in-combat regeneration. She is however no Wolverine and some injuries just take a while to mend or heal incorrectly leaving scarring/permanent damage.
sewa
Dec. 12th, 2011 07:53 pm (UTC)
and use anyway is mentioned twice

Anyway

Aigis: I rp as hard to notice/can't sense resonance. Problem is, sometimes people pose their resonance at me and I can't react to it or, worse, forget I can't! Sometimes people seem to assume I should sense them/be able to be sensed.

Maki: I used to have her resonance be big and ominous though I never reallty brought it up much. Now she is less crazy so its relatively level. She has mastered the ninetailds. Anyway aside from shit that doesn't really involve resonance, she is canonically able to sense /whom you have met/ through resonance. This is probably a bit afvanced and is somrthing I intend to go for now that her plot is over even if practical use is a bit tricky.

Ryouko: persona hiding/disguise. Basically her resonance was dictated by her guise at times. She had poor sensing ability to sort of try and balance this.
tlynn2002
Dec. 12th, 2011 08:18 pm (UTC)
Kasumi - Can detect resonances of people she knows really well or if she's really looking for it. (Mai, Yoh, Thora, etc). Emits her own resonance too.

Fuuka - She is a spotter (duh!) so unless someone is masking or doesn't have one she can sense just about everyone's resonance. I don't think it's actually come up that much but she does emit a resonance which she can mask.

Sayori - She can sense resonance fairly well but she is definitely not a spotter. Has a resonance as well.

Akari - Completely resonance blind. Emits two different resonances for now. One as Akari, one as Ixquic, though she's completely unaware that it happens.

Hajime - When he becomes awakened and aware, he will probably be able to detect like Kasumi.... people he knows very well. He will eventually have a resonance too.
nimriye
Dec. 12th, 2011 08:56 pm (UTC)
Shinjiro - is totally Resonance-blind, though there's some parts in the newsfile that confuse me as to whether Persona-users can tell other Persona-users apart from mundanes, even if they can't detect the -specifics- of someone's Resonance. His own Resonance is unusually strong for someone who awakened via Evoker, given 1) willful Persona/former control issues 2) getting TV'd gave him a more natural relationship with his main (still needs an Evoker for off-Personas).

Kyo - can detect Resonance well, but is certainly not a spotter. I do enjoy the 'detecting Resonances via the natural five senses' stuff as it gives a lot of interesting flavor/options for people on how to present themselves. I don't treat it literally, however; Kyo is still sensing something only detectable by a sixth sense, but uses a mundane sense by which to process and describe the supernatural input. Sort of like the synesthesia of 'tasting green.' His own Resonance is actually not half as much of an assault on the senses as it once was; it's very quiet and contained now.

Nanami - Projects a powerful Resonance, but is somewhat limited in her detection to those she's standing right next to.

I've never given any of them any particular 'Resonance power' as I never fully understood exactly what was possible or legal.
cyanne
Dec. 12th, 2011 09:04 pm (UTC)
Mitsuru uses her fake-spotter powers to sense resonance of those nearby. She can sense the resonance of Persona users (and Shadow users) when they're in an area roughly the size of a room with her and she can pick out the resonance of those she's familiar with in that area as well. This kind of just happens by default. She can widen her range with special gear and even detect some specifics (though not nearly as specific as Fuuka) if she's /really/ concentrating.

Jason still hasn't quite figured out what 'resonance' is. He can sometimes tell, if he's really paying attention to someone else, if they have 'it' but unless he's paying attention, he may just get this weird feeling on occasion.

Edited at 2011-12-12 09:06 pm (UTC)
unclejam
Dec. 12th, 2011 09:52 pm (UTC)
Use: Not much. Most of my characters do not really roll with it. Michiru has gone from 'eh' to 'I guess picks it up a little' over the course of like two years.

Special powers: Honestly, I'm not sure what special powers resonance could give you, other than the built in apps of 'detect shadows/persona users'. It's a sensitivity; I guess it might be like, if you had a certain form of color blindness or a genetic mutation that gave you increased sensitivity to a color, you'd be able to see some things better. Frankly I'd like a couple examples of special resonance powers.

Sensing other Persona users: I would actually err heavily on the side of not detecting people, unless it's in some situation where you'd have to be a complete goddamn idiot to not figure it out. (Adachi falls in the TV? Plausible. Adachi has run to the center of Magatsu Inaba and is cackling at you throughout the dungeon dive? Yeah, I think it would be fair to not be shocked when he sends out his Stand, at least at the prospect of -- his having one.)
The reason for this is basically that I don't want to be 'that guy' who blows someone's cover due to a combination of it often being rude, and also because it is an A-1 way to get on a lot of people's shitlists, fast. There are ancillary reasons; first of all 'detecting other Persona users' seems a lot less useful when the game environment is such that the great majority of the playerbase is Persona users. Secondly, the things beyond just 'detect persona-user/shadow-possessed/shadow/rich girl' seem to be tele-empathic or telepathic in nature, which is a legitimate power-set but one which requires some careful stepping.
kwith
Dec. 12th, 2011 10:24 pm (UTC)
For powers part of the reason I ask is that 'add-on powers' have traditionally been handled in a pretty inconsistent way without a whole lot of oversight--in part just because 'hey let's do something more unique!' that back before I had to care I was all for--so having people tell me their experiences will give me a better idea of what's there/problems/etc.

I think it's pretty plausible with or without resonance to figure out the guy cackling at you all through the dungeon is proooobably not a normal dude though, totally.
unclejam
Dec. 12th, 2011 11:16 pm (UTC)
Well my experience is that it used to be OK for them to be there a little bit, and now they are so explicitly banned I'm not even sure if I'm supposed to continue using logical spell-like effects (i.e. when I've used Xipe Totec to carve foot holds down a rock wall into a mine shaft) instead of just having magnara/mamagnara/magnadyne.

The one example of a 'resonance power' I've heard, which I think was Naomi having Detect Lies, seemed like... the kind of thing that could be a logical extension of one's abilities from a Persona, which I gather is a thing, even if leaning on your Persona's passive bonuses may in the long term interfere with your ability to send it out to punch Dio Brando. (It also seemed like something which one might have independent of Personas, though obviously, if you're the kind of person to have taken the Detect Lies perk, you might well be more inclined towards that kind of Persona; chicken, egg.)

So like past this I guess I have no idea what constitutes one.

What I suppose I would suggest is reimagining these things under the general umbrella of 'non-combat powers,' and encouraging people to somewhat define them; for instance, using Michiru as an example, she probably has increased talents for dealing with plants/agriculture and diseases, as well as limited ability to manipulate stone/dirt. Someone with, say, Hephasteus as a Persona might have talent with metalworking and related trades, as well as the ability to set shit on fiyaaah but that's the easy one.
thewaterknight
Dec. 13th, 2011 01:20 am (UTC)
*cough*
unclejam
Dec. 12th, 2011 11:29 pm (UTC)
balance suggestion
A Persona user can declare one or two skills or talents which their Persona has given them extra capacity with. These skills/talents should not be directly related to combat, though stunts which incorporate your talent for currency manipulations or Japanese poetry into fights are hilarious and thus encouraged.

A Persona user also gets one non-combat special trick they can define. This should ideally be a knack which is occasionally handy, rather than something you would legitimately want always up or to constantly spam onto people, and staff reserves the right to ask for it to be toned down if it is making the character OP, although this will tend to be a matter of degree than of kind.

It is, of course, not required to take on either of these, as they are meant for flavoring rather than being mandatory power-ups.
sewa
Dec. 13th, 2011 04:04 am (UTC)
Re: balance suggestion
actually quite frankly, I'm totally okay with dudes being 'a little better at fighting' than the average user (if only because sometimes personas seem a little...too samey?) at the expense of having a cool noncom thing. If nothing else, there are already kind of people whose 'non com thing' is ... a 'com thing', like Aigis and Shinjiro being tuff and the like. I wouldn't make it a big difference but maybe like 5 points.

But I do like the idea of having like 'noncom slots' for shit your persona makes you better at. Like Detect Lies could be a slot (though honestly I never knew Naomi had Detect Lies and would in theory like to know that first before 'lying' to her.).
unclejam
Dec. 13th, 2011 05:33 am (UTC)
Re: balance suggestion
I don't know what the whole deal is, I just heard that as like the one example of an off-label power. And stuff Glaive did I guess.
ryuuzoku_aya
Dec. 14th, 2011 03:21 am (UTC)
I think this "powers" thing comes from the resonance2 newsfile. In particular this part which suggests advantages depending on the nature of a persona's legend/identity could happen:

Resonance can be used for more than simply detecting others. As time passes, one's Persona resonance begins to have an effect even on the ordinary people around them. This is an extremely subtle, very long-term effect in most cases, but because of it, a Persona-user who learns how to roll with what their Persona guides them to can find success even in ordinary life falling easily into their laps. Of course, it cuts both ways; having a Persona of a wise judge of the dead might do one well in a career as a judge, a police officer, or other careers where good judgement of others is useful, but it will probably lead to total failure if one's career is gardening. Furthermore, one must be cautious; using one's Persona for purely social functions can often lead to its combat abilities decaying, sometimes to the point of becoming completely useless for combat. People with certain types of evolved Personae who spend a long period of time relying on its social powers can even find their Persona reverting to its original state!

Personally, I like the way resonance is currently written up and think it should be kept as-is. Heck, the news file even includes a "don't be a douche about detecting" note in it.
snotman
Dec. 12th, 2011 10:07 pm (UTC)
Daiya/Dona is a Shadow and doesn't really do Resonance! Before I knew that Shadows have basically none, hers was basically all about deflecting attention from itself, due to secret identity and whatnot. Her freaky powers are unrelated to Resonance, and usually way-downplayed versions of stuff she does in her Shadow form.

Shiki is on hiatus but I'll answer for him anyway: he started out as a completely Resonance-blind Evoker-user but goofy circumstances have led to him being able to summon without one and develop some sensing abilities for folks he knows well. I admittedly did very little with that!

I like Resonance as a "Persona-user secret handshake", because it allows for characters to run into each other and, at least in theory, be able to talk about secret headghost things without needing to coincidentally run into each other and summon headghosts first. In practice, though, there being a large amount of Evoker-users (and a tiny minority of Shadow-possessed!!) seems to all too often render this completely moot, as far as I've seen.
khronoswolf
Dec. 13th, 2011 05:24 am (UTC)
For Masumi, I've used Resonance almost entirely as flavor in social scenes. I apped that she was extremely sensitive to the subtle ideas/sensations in peoples' Resonances, but didn't really have any range or ability to detect hidden ones, etc. Also that it somewhat heightened her natural intuition about other people. It's not something I use all the time -- often simply because I don't want to spend any more time on some particular pose -- but I've had it cut both ways in the past. She's picked up on broad strokes of a person's character from their Resonance (if the player described it in-depth enough), but she's also been hit hard with intensely negative Resonances like Reki's or Tohya's back in her NWO days.

It's never come up, but if someone like Leo was posing an extremely 'loud' Resonance, she'd probably pick it up at a distance. Aside from that, I'd figure she'd be good at feeling some of the fringe non-Persona 'magic' that seems to crop up from time to time (given that Cerridwen is a goddess of magic), but because of super-idles, I'm not totally clear how much of that was just the old paradigm and how much still actually exists under the new one.

Oh, I also apped that she amplified other peoples' ability to feel Resonance around her, but I don't think I ever actually used it.


Reiji's ability to detect Resonance was apped as largely being connected to the darkness. Bright lights, busy main streets, he pretty much can't get anything at all. Dark areas, back alleys, he has a large range and sharp sense. It's mainly a heightened danger sense, and he doesn't usually grasp the subtleties in the person's Resonance.


thewaterknight
Dec. 13th, 2011 07:13 am (UTC)
Sudou is basically the canon poster boy for Resonance as a thing, and I have adopted his vast unmistakable aura into my RP. He's had his Persona for a very long time, he's extremely powerful, and he's a bombastic attention whore -- he's all but impossible NOT to notice or detect, and is completely incapable of stealth around people who are even remotely Resonance-sensitive. (In that vein, he has some small ability to manipulate it, mostly to attract more direct attention.) I enjoy posing it and seeing what I can do with the effects, especially because they shift in intensity depending on what he's feeling. I also enjoy all the "oh SHIT" reactions, but I'm perverse. :(
Sudou is also adept at sensing Resonance; to echo nimriye up there, he feels it via an ineffable psychic "sixth sense", but processes certain Resonances more directly as scents -- and Tatsuya Suou's causes him actual physical pain.

Shinsuke, meanwhile, has a fairly strong aura for someone of his background thanks to his own former control issues/willful Persona. His ordeal in the TV has left him no longer needing an Evoker, and subsequently his Resonance is less contained than it used to be. He can only sense people when they're more or less in the same room as him.

Kei has Resonance, and he probably can't really sense others'. I haven't actually thought about it.

I tend to think of Resonance as the vibrations of the Awakened soul, so to speak; when two Persona-users meet, their auras overlap like ripples colliding in a pond. I like it for flavor, as well as for that extra layer of individual distinction; for instance even people with the same Persona don't always have the same Resonance. I do think that it would be easier to work with if there were more straitly codified rules and guidelines. The existing newsfile is good, but does not take into account details of Resonance itself in terms of IC interpretation, including what is possible to have as Resonance and how one might sense it.

On that note, I do like the "five senses" method -- not as a literal device, but as a way the brain might interpret the information it receives from that ineffable "sixth sense".
riskygamble
Dec. 13th, 2011 07:45 am (UTC)
Ran has 'Detect Her Super-Close BFFs' as her special resonance power. It's hard for her to describe exactly how it feels to her... sort of like someone humming in the next room, and at the same time it's like someone plucking a wire that's attached to her brain. If she doesn't know someone well theyir resonance might as well not even be there.

Yoko is a dirty cheater who sees Personas as ghostly figures or afterimages around characters that give me the OK for it.
ctakahara
Dec. 13th, 2011 01:52 pm (UTC)
Yanagi's a spotter, so I just sort of assume she can detect resonance all the time (and since she's the new kid, I append "whether she wants to or not" to that).
prismaticdrake
Dec. 13th, 2011 08:19 pm (UTC)
I don't understand what Resonance can do or where it came from and as such essentially never use it.
ryuuzoku_aya
Dec. 13th, 2011 09:58 pm (UTC)
I use that shit all the time. Love it.
oratorio
Dec. 13th, 2011 10:42 pm (UTC)
Alright. Resonance. I use this all the time, I like the flavor of the multiple ways to sense it as well. Seiichi himself is average at sensing it, he can recognize how familiar ones feel if he's close enough.

His powers that I apped for is the ability to shift and cloak the feel and strength of his Resonance. This is pretty much almost required for anyone attempting to hide their identity for any length of time.
fuchi
Dec. 14th, 2011 12:39 am (UTC)
I basically never touch resonance if I can avoid it. The use that most people seem to like -- the 'secret handshake between the supernaturals' -- seems kind of... boring, to me, to be flat honest. I think it is straight up more interesting if that stuff comes up as something emergent in RP rather than 'just knowing,' basically.

I also dislike the sensory interpretations thereof in particular; it's something I'm uncomfortable posing because I don't really make those sorts of mental associations, and something I'm uncomfortable having posed at me because sometimes when I haven't specified things I have sort of felt as though what someone was coming up with was a metatextual joke at my expense.

As to the question of 'where it came from,' which I saw a couple places earlier in the thread: It reads as though it is an outgrowth of both 'boss-sensing' in P2 (which happens a few times outside of the proper 'right before a boss' segment; Maya comments on getting a faint Persona resonance from Ginji, and /everyone/ notices Sudou, a couple other cases) and the social-link applications of Personae in P3/4.

Of note, I think the way it's been run is kind of an interpretation error; only Maya 'Entertainment Journalist' Amano notices anything about Ginji and only Yukino notices anything about Anna, which would sort of imply that there needs to already be at least some semi-intimate knowledge for this kind of thing to work. (Corroborated by the need to sleuth out stuff about characters before Teddie can sense them -- similar conceptually.)

As for the actual practice: I absolutely revile being 'mystically found out,' especially by people with combat rather than spotter Personae. Kotone is a notable exception who gets more Resonance posing than either of my other alts because she is Resonance-loud and also very nearly resonance-deaf.

I should like to add some powers I didn't apply for to my characters. Katsura has Vision Eightfold now.

::::|
unclejam
Dec. 14th, 2011 03:19 am (UTC)
On the first point, I can see value in removing the logical need to do a revelatory pee-pee dance when, in fact, the vast majority of the characters you will be encountering are 'with it,' as opposed to, say, P4, where you had your eight or so people with the power of Persona (or Bearsona), one antagonist with it, and like thirty other named, significant characters in the narrative without. (I don't know what the relative numbers are in the other games.)

However I derive this from the thesis that expositional RP is often actually pretty dull. (Obviously, not always.) But having to ICly write out and role play giving someone 'the contents of a news file' is in fact, kind of boring, even if I guess it is nice to receive that attention, but then you get the risk of 'Oh no Lazlo never told me part 7! I don't know it ICly! It's Lazlo's fault!' which sucks if Lazlo's player just plain forgot to mention it.
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